From: schulz@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Stephan Schulz) Newsgroups: soc.history.ancient Subject: [FAQ] soc.history.ancient: Occasionally Asked Questions Followup-To: soc.history.ancient Summary: FAQ on technical aspects of the group. Expires: 1 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Supersedes: <5tc0rs$j8h@sunsystem5.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Keywords: FAQ, welcome, ancient, history Archive-name: history/ancient/net-resources Posting-Frequency: about weekly (will drop to about monthly later) URL: http://wwwjessen.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~schulz/ancient_faq_qa.posted URL: http://www.tezcat.com/~josephb/past/faqs/question-faq (pending) Maintainer: Stephan Schulz [Last changed: Tue Aug 19 12:19:03 MET DST 1997] Occasionally Asked Questions on soc.history ancient =================================================== [Hi! No changes I am aware of... Stephan ] This document is intended as the bare bones of to a true "Frequently Asked Questions" list for ancient history. Only time will tell us what frequently asked questions we will have to answer in the future, but we have picked up some useful or obscure information that might be worth sharing. Please feel free to express opinions on its usefulness, and certainly feel free to suggest other questions (and answers!). The basic setup of the newsgroup, netiquette, and net resources are discussed in a separate FAQ with the subject line [FAQ] Welcome to soc.history.ancient (Netiquette and Net Resources) This document is only a draft. Please feel free to suggest changes, additional topics and corrections. Comments and requests are enclosed in [square brackets]. The last posted version of this FAQ will be available on the WWW under http://wwwjessen.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~schulz/ancient_faq_qa.posted, and will be mirrored at http://www.tezcat.com/~josephb/past/faqs/questions-faq at some point in the future. ------------------------------ Subject: 1. Table of Contents 1. Table of Contents 2. Sometimes asked questions 2.1 What are the different dating schemes (AD, BC, BCE, CE) about? 2.2 Is there a re-enactment group like the SCA for ancient history? 2.3 Does any Greek or early Roman music survive? 3. Credits ------------------------------ Subject: 2. Sometimes asked questions 2.1 What are the different dating schemes (AD, BC, BCE, CE) about? The traditional (Christian) dating scheme uses the abbreviation AD ("Anno Domini", or "Year of the Lord") to denote years after the (supposed) birth of Jesus Christ. It uses BC ("before Christ") to denote earlier dates. Note that there is no year 0, 1 BC is directly followed by 1 AD. Yes, this is illogical to a modern mathematician's mind, but it may have appeared reasonable to the early medieval monks that probably established this dating system [Has anybody more information on the early use of the Christian dating scheme?]. There are some concerns about the use of the strong Christian symbolism in the naming scheme. On the one hand, some traditional followers of Christian faith believe that the use of these names violates the second commandment: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" (Exodus 20: 7). For traditional Jewish and Muslim persons there is another objection, namely that the statement "Year of the Lord" presupposes the divinity of Jesus Christ, contrary to their beliefs. Due to similar concern, other cultures feel uncomfortable with using these Eurocentric names. As a solution, more neutral synonyms have been suggested and come into use: CE ("Common Era", or, sometimes "Christian Era" - note that this does not imply any religous statement, but merly acknowledges the existence of Christianity or the Christian Dating scheme) is equivalent to AD, and BCE ("Before the Common (Christian) Era") is equivalent to BC. These are strict synonyms, there is no change to the numbers assigned to the years. 2.2 Is there a re-enactment group like the SCA for ancient history? Actually, the answer is, no, not quite. While the SCA is by far the most prominent re-enactment group for mediaeval history, for ancient history there's a bunch of groups, none as dominant. Also, many ancient history re-enactment groups are relatively small, exhibition or performance oriented, where the SCA is a larger socially-oriented group (for all that it too has an exhibiting side). You're probably better off asking in soc.history.living (and it would be nice if I could find an FAQ for that group to send you to!), but here's an attempt at a quick answer based on some web surfing. Feel free to e-mail me (Joe Bernstein, joe@sfbooks.com) if you want information but lack web access. I will not be able to answer promptly, however. A British group called the Milites deBec, not themselves concerned with the ancient period, maintain a "Register of Re-Enactment and Living History Societies" on the Web; covers the period up to 1066, and while many of the groups covered have to do with the Vikings, some fall within soc.history.ancient's period. Meanwhile, Roman re-enactment groups on the Web are pretty numerous, going by the materials provided by Bill Thayer in RomanSites-L. Thankfully, one of these, the Legio IX Hispana in San Diego (which seems to be affiliated with the SCA), maintains a link list . Another few organisations can be found via personal pages at (look out for really obnoxious animation effects if you have a slow link) and at . Further information can probably be included here (although it would be much better if someone would just start doing a soc.history.living FAQ!) if people care to supply it. Obviously the above is pretty much restricted to British or Roman (and often Roman British!) interest. 2.3 Does any Greek or early Roman music survive? Yes, actually. This was my question some months back, and since it seems to get re-asked now and then, it seems worth including some of the answers I got from rec.music.early and sci.classics. John Levin wrote: Hi, I've noticed some questions lately about Pythagorean tuning and Greek Music 'round here lately. People may want to go to their libraries and check out: Ancient Greek Music. M. L. West. Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1992, xiii, 410 pp., illus. ISBN 0-19-814897-6. Greek Musical Writings. Volume II, Harmonic and Acoustic Theory. Andrew Barker. Cambridge University Press, 1989, viii, 581 pp., ISBN 0-521-30220-X Aristoxenos reconciled. In JAMS 11 (1958), p.97 Mathiesen, T. A bibliography of sources for the study of Ancient Greek music. Hackensack 1973 (Music indexes and bibliographies 10). Richter, L. Die Aufgaben der Musiklehre nach Aristoxenos uns Klaudios Ptolemaios. In AfM 15 (1958), p.209 Rios, R. da, Aristoxeni Elementa harmonica. Rome 1954. Westphal, R. Aristoxenos von Tarent. Melik und Rhytmik des classischen Hellenthums. 2 vols. Leipzig 1883-1893, reprint Hildesheim 1965. Other translations of Boethius' institutione: Paul, Oscar, Anicius Manlius Severinus Boethius. Leipzig 1872, reprint Hildesheim, 1985. Bower, Calvin, The principals of music, an introduction, translation and commentary. dissertation Ann Arbor, 1967. Translation of Quintilianus: Mathiesen, T.J. Aristides Quintilianus on music in three books, Yale 1983 Scha"fke, R. ed. Aristeides Quintilianus. Harmonik. Tutzing 1976. Greek edition. Furthermore, Philip Neuman of Pandourion Records and De Organographia wrote: As has been mentioned, I agree that M.L. West's "Ancient Greek Music" Clarendon Press, 1992 is the best new English language book on the subject. Fortunately, the Greek letter notation (vocal and instrumental) is well understood thanks to Aristoxenus and Alypius. The relatively few disagreements in transcription between Pohlmann and West result mostly from the interpretation of the parts of the papyri that are difficult to read. While most of the pieces are fragmentary, that which is preserved is performable. We have corresponded with West and have produced a CD of this repertoire "Music of the Ancient Greeks" Pandourion Records, 1995. The music is performed on copies of period instruments and voice. Some of our CD appears in the latest Norton Scores Anthology of Western Music, as well. We have also given performances of this repertoire at the Cleveland Musum of Art, Florida State University, Case Western Reserve Univ., the Castle of the Knights of St. John Museum, Bodrum, Turkey, the theatre at Epidauros, Greece, and elsewhere. This is not the only recording; there is also a CD put out by harmonia mundi called "Musique de la Grece Antique." The group is the Atrium Musicae de Madrid led by Gregorio Panigua. That CD includes an extremely short snippet of the only surviving Roman music (from before Gregorian chant!), a verse of Terence. Todd M. McComb's immense early music FAQ site includes lots of materials on chant, and a page on ancient music at . The ancient music page duplicates nothing above; check it out. Carolyn Norton added more information: Anyone interested in ancient Greek music should try the Hellenic Greek Civilization web site at http://www.greekcivil.ariadne-t.gr/default.html. It provides an Internet Music Server which features la musique antique greque (ancient Greek music). It takes a good while to download the music and the hymns are less than inspiring; however, for anyone interested in listening to a fairly authentic reenactment of pious hymns to Apollo, this web site is nice. ------------------------------ Subject: 3. Credits The first version of this FAQ, the "mini-FAQ", was written and posted by Stephan Schulz; Joe Bernstein wrote sections 2.2 and 2.3. The following people have, to a greater or lesser degree, influenced this FAQ: John Desmond, Stan Goodman, John Levin, Philip Neuman, Carolyn Norton, D. Michael Tepe, and Bill Thayer. -- (c) Copyright 1996-1997 by Stephan Schulz and Joe Bernstein. All rights reserved. Redistribution of any or all of this article on Usenet or in e-mail is hereby freely granted so long as it is redistributed without alteration.